'Stand Your Ground' Supporters Pack Statehouse Committee Hearing
Opponents advocate rescinding deadly force, "kill at will" provisions.
Supporters of the New Hampshire's “stand your ground” gun provisions turned out in force Jan. 22 for a public safety committee hearing on a bill that would rescind changes to the law approved in the last legislative session.
The hearing, originally scheduled for the Legislative Office Building, was moved at the last minute to Representatives Hall due to the heavy turnout of gun owners, at the urging of state Rep. Al Baldasaro, R-Londonderry, at a rally last weekend.
Supporters of changing the law said they felt it was dangerous and would lead to situations like the death of Trayvon Martin in Florida. Opponents of the bill said that New Hampshire Constitution allowed citizens to not only have weapons but also to use them in defense of themselves.
State Rep. David Murotake, R-Nashua, was one of many who stood against the law saying the state’s constitution, specifically Article 2A, allowed citizens the natural right to defend themselves and use deadly force. He said the changes implemented two years ago protected people from lawsuits for acting in a constitutional manner.
“House Bill 135 seeks to undo the corrections and restore the deficiencies of the Castle Doctrine,” he said.
State Rep. Steve Shurtleff, D-Penacook, proposed three changes that add back text that allows accidental victims of the “stand your ground” provisions to sue people who are acting in self-defense, criminal charges for brandishing a firearm in a menacing or threatening manner, and a requirement to retreat a situation before using deadly force. He said there was “a lot of disinformation and misinformation about the bill” and said in all the years the previous legislation was in place, there were never any problems. Shurtleff said changing the law back would allow the Legislature to give citizens the chance to act proactively instead of reactively.
“I don’t want to see us have an incident when someone is inadvertently killed when confronted by someone,” Shurtleff said, noting that there were studies showing that states with “stand your ground” provisions showed increased rates of murder and non-negligent homicide. “Instead of acting defensively, the tendency is to active in an offensive manner.”
A representative from the New Hampshire Attorney General’s Office, Ann Rice, rose in favor of the bill, noting that it had nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment and was not a gun bill. She said the previous bill was a “fair, balanced approach” to the self-defense issue. Rice added that “stand your ground” created “significant problems, especially in terms of public safety.”
State Rep. Laurie Sanborn, R-Bedford, said she and other women were “very concerned” about their own public safety and this bill told women that they couldn’t defend themselves from danger. She added, that the bill seemed to deny the basic human right of people to defend themselves.
“If I’m in a parking lot or stranded on a rural road somewhere in New Hampshire, I shouldn’t have the legal obligation to retreat,” she said. “I have seconds to decide whether or not to use deadly force to defend myself. I should not have to think twice about whether or not my attacker has more rights than I do.”
Former state Sen. Burt Cohen, D-Portsmouth, though disagreed, saying protection inside a home was one thing, since it’s “not movable ... it's quite stationary.” But on the street and public ways, people had the opportunity to escape a criminal situation.
“What are you defending with the use of a gun?” he asked. “In those situations, belligerence is the least productive and is certainly, the worst option available.”
State Rep. Fred Rice, R-Hampton, countered Cohen’s arguments by saying that some people, like his wife, could not easily run from a dangerous situation on a street. He challenged the notion that a right was not a right just because someone was outside.
“At what point does their right become not worth saving?,” he asked. “Is it in your doorway? Front steps? Your yard? Your neighbor’s yard? Is it not worth it to save my own life?”
Chris Casko, a New Hampshire Department of Safety employee and a former Concord School Board member, came out against the bill, saying it didn’t take away someone’s rights, it was limiting when the use of deadly force out in the public. He called it, “legally appropriate,” especially when there were opportunities to retreat to safety. When questioned later whether or not there were issues with the law since it was changed, Casko said he was not aware of any abuses of the law at this point.
Lindsay Dearborn of the New Hampshire Public Health Association also stood in support of the bill adding that her organization was working on comprehensive public health approaches to gun violence. She believed that the bill would reduce the risk of preventable injury and death.
However, Baldasaro said “stand your ground” legislation kept New Hampshire from being “a killing zone” and pointed to a situation in Somerville, Mass., in 2006 at a family member’s restaurant where a gunman shot up the establishment but he was unarmed and couldn’t protect himself or the restaurant’s patrons. He said it took the police 10 minutes to get to the establishment after the shooting was done and the alleged perp gone.
Zandra Rice Hawkins, the executive director of Granite State Progress, spoke in favor of the bill calling the previous changes to the law “ill-advised.” She called it “a kill at will bill” pushed by “an outside interest group” – American Legislative Exchange Council – that “solves nothing and creates more headaches for law enforcement agencies.”
According to the committee chairwoman, state Rep. Laura Pantelakos, D-Portsmouth, there were more than 70 people that testified, with most opposing the bill.
Dot Knightly
7:47 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Hasn't the "Stand Your Ground" Bill put an end to frivolous lawsuits, clogging up the Court's more than they already are? Why should anyone being attacked turn and run the other way without fighting back? This just gives the aggressor more power, knowing he has the upper hand. It tell's the aggressor to go ahead and violate a victim, because they're not going to fight back anyway. Is this what our Country has become? A Country of people who look the other way instead of fighting for their rights? Our Country was founded by fighter's who stood up for their rights, not a bunch of wusses who retreated and turned the other way. We need to stand our ground whenever we feel we are being wronged, by ANYONE!
Really??
8:35 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Two men fell into the water while fighting on a dock. When one started climbing out of the water, the other shot him in the back of the head, killing him. He was acquitted after arguing "stand your ground."
Ricardo Bauer
8:58 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
BS
Hilltopper
9:00 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
"while fighting on a dock" - unknow what threats were made prior to or during the altercation--Really?
Shawn C. Bugbee
11:34 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
Do you have a link to this story? Perhaps a source with some modicum of credibility?
Really??
8:35 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
A Seventh-day Adventist was acting erratically, doing cartwheels through an apartment complex parking lot, pounding on cars and apartment windows and setting off alarms. A tenant who felt threatened by the man's behavior shot and killed him. He was not charged.
Ricardo Bauer
8:58 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
BS
Hilltopper
9:01 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
"pounding on cars and apartment windows and setting off alarms." is not considered threatning?--Really?
Really??
1:13 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
"pounding on cars and apartment windows and setting off alarms" Should get you killed?
Hilltopper
3:45 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
"acting erratically, doing cartwheels through an apartment complex parking lot, pounding on cars and apartment windows and setting off alarms--if it was your house/aprtment window you'd invite him for a cup of Earl Grey? Really??
Really??
8:35 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
A Citrus County man in a longstanding dispute with a neighbor shot and killed the man one night in 2009. He was not charged even though a witness and the location of two bullet wounds showed the victim was turning to leave when he was shot.
Ricardo Bauer
8:58 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
BS
Hilltopper
9:03 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
"longstanding dispute" --Hmmm-wonder how many and to what degree threats were made?--Really?
Lorna Andoscia
12:55 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
If HB135 is passed, the person with the bullet holes in the back could very well be the victim; as the victim of a perpetration of deadly force would be expected to retreat if he can do so with "complete safety". Where and how someone who has already been confronted with deadly force is supposed to retreat with complete safety is beyond me.
Shawn C. Bugbee
11:35 pm on Wednesday, March 6, 2013
This was prior to the SYG law being enacted in NH. Therefore it has absolutely nothing to do with the SYG law.
Really??
8:36 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Even chasing and killing someone over a drug buy can be considered standing your ground.
Anthony Gonzalez Jr. was part of a 2010 drug deal that went sour when someone threatened Gonzalez with a gun. Gonzalez chased the man down and killed him during a high-speed gunbattle through Miami streets.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article1233133.ece
Dot Knightly
8:48 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
All of the scenario's you have mentioned were not about Standing your ground. They were all senseless and stupid. In these situations, the murderers were at fault. If the Court's ruled in favor of the murderer's, than that's what our society has become. Ridiculous!
If someone walks up to you and punches you, are you going to turn the other way and run like a scared rabbit? No, you fight back!
Hilltopper
9:04 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
"someone threatened Gonzalez with a gun." --once the gun came out, I would assume one felt threatened - Really
Ricardo Bauer
9:09 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
I see you conveniently ignore the "stand your ground" cases where the person claiming to "stand" were in fact found to be guilty of assault. I can only assume that you endorse stalking and intimidation as acceptable social behavior and that you are a criminal sympathizer.
Ricardo Bauer
8:54 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
The "Law" doesn't give a hoot about YOU personally. On the whole, "The Law" regards you as an ant....the loss of any particular ant, or ten ants, or 100 ants; is inconsequential to the tax revenue stream that the other millions of ants pay. "The Law" provides you with a false sense of personal security in the form of "justice" but in fact, renders you personally powerless to legally defend yourself when attacked. The fact is, when you are attacked, there will be no "Law" or "Law Enforcement" resources to defend you......and you will be legally compelled to flee or you will be prosecuted when your assailant or Law Enforcement presses charges on you for defending yourself.
Dot Knightly
9:08 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Before the Stand your Ground Bill was enacted, a family in NH was being harassed daily by a bunch of hoods. The Police were called constantly. They said there was nothing they could do because they didn't see anything happen. They were called and told a huge fight was going to happen, between the family and the hoods. Again, they said they couldn't do anything until it happened. Well it happened. The fight broke out between this family and a few good friends. There were over forty hoods, who got dropped off by truckloads to fight the family and friends, which was only eight people. Because the family fought back, who do you think got arrested? Two of the family member's! Is this what our country has become? You fight back and you are the one prosecuted?
Really??
1:11 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
B.S.
ObserverNH
12:59 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Wow... Trayvon Martin? Someone called out THAT case? We have the reverse of Trayvon Martin happening every day in multiples across the nation and not a peep about those victims, eh? Typical liberal nonsense. Stand Your Ground is from the people, not some unknown group that known liar ZR Hawkins is claiming. The turnout against the bill ought to be proof enough of that! For every one of those who oppose the bill there are hundreds more of us who could not attend, who agree.
Steven Reiss
1:30 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Hey Really??:
Why not just NOT STAND YOUR GROUND and move to Massachusetts?? Better yet, move to New Jersey. We moved up here from NJ 5 years ago and there're a couple of open slots for you compassionate libs.
That way, if confronted outside, you can turn and run away, hoping that you won't be jumped, stabbed or shot in the back?
I also like the supporters of this fiasco of a bill claim that we citizens are just too "misinformed" to understand the bill! Another bunch of leftist elites. We're just barely intelligent enough to vote for these buffoons and pay their glorified salaries BUT just not intelligent enough to comprehend the complex thoughts of these wizards on Mt. Oympus, eh?
Which lobby is supporting you fools? The Crooks, Robbers and Rapists Support Network? You all claim that you're "pro-choice".........my choice is to defend myself wherever and in whatever manner to assure my safety.
Jerks!